tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3465633074548394200.post8836480348416908004..comments2023-05-02T16:59:56.042+02:00Comments on Dense Words: Two People, Two Voices; Author, Reader and NarratorsHarryhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07127058082626598689noreply@blogger.comBlogger2125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3465633074548394200.post-41456469747764690392012-03-21T18:37:35.577+01:002012-03-21T18:37:35.577+01:00I'm obviously speculating as to what your (and...I'm obviously speculating as to what your (and Damon's other friends) experience might have been, in order to address the broader issue of the nature of the narrator as a person or as a voice.<br /><br />I feel that this incident reveals that for many readers, the narrator feels like a real person to them, and when that person talks in a way that seems inconsistent — sudden changes in register or use of unexpected turns of phrase — it can jar the reader out of the world of the book.<br /><br />Something like that seems to have happened in this case. Thank you for elaborating further!<br /><br />My attitude is that we should encourage Damon to play with language this way; that is one of the ways authors develop a distinctive style.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14421526608194399666noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3465633074548394200.post-89701066908649147272012-03-21T16:00:54.496+01:002012-03-21T16:00:54.496+01:00I disagree somewhat. I don't necessarily hear...I disagree somewhat. I don't necessarily hear Damon's voice when reading his work (and I told him I don't recall him ever saying the phrase in question). I do hear his voice when I read his e-mails, but that's personal correspondence. Not that it's impossible to hear his voice in my head, but that's not the issue I was pointing to with this line.<br /><br />When we originally read the Ogrosh's Champion chapter I actually skipped right over these lines. My wife is the one who noticed that the metaphor repeated so quickly after it was first used. To her, it read like a mistake - like he forgot to remove it from one of the paragraphs. We often do that in writing, right? We take a snippet and copy it up (or down) and then reword the original sentence without it because it works better in the new location. I write mostly nonfiction research papers these days and my wife is my first editor, one good reason she makes a good beta reader for Damon and another author friend of ours (where, again, she caught a lot more than I did and was able to put a finger on why the protagonist wasn't working as well as she could).<br /><br />It wasn't until I was falling asleep Sunday night (3/18) that I recalled a similar repetition to Damon's in The Blade Itself by Joe Abercrombie (which Damon turned me onto). In that book the phrase was part of the inner dialogue and utterings of one of the characters - helping define and develop him. That's when I noticed that these lines in Damon's chapter are doing the same thing, but for the narrator - who isn't an actual character in the story. It's like the narrator used a colloquialism, but he's not a bard sitting around a campfire entertaining us our way to Canterbury - the narrator is simply reality with limited omniscient viewpoint. So, I pointed out my new insight - not to demand it be changed, but to give insight which may be used to further paint - either more "development" of the narrator or less. I often do this, came back and belabor some point well after we're past it because I spend too much time in introspection just so I can give two sides of a discussion. It's why I'd make a terrible politician (maybe I need more <i>trueseeming</i>).<br /><br />To me the question here is: how much and how soon do you develop the author's style and/or narrator's voice? Is the narrator simply a conduit for information with only a little flavoring from the setting - or does it take on a lot more personality with its own phrasing and interjections? For instance, had this metaphor been used towards the end of the chapter, it might not have raised a flag. Certainly, if it appeared later in the book it wouldn't. On the other hand, can the inner dialogue of a goblin (which you labeled "intelligent", which is technically true when compared to animals, but... I digress) be more articulate than his actual speech? Can the phrase be modified to make it seem like the goblin's own thoughts? <br /><br />I appreciate this discussion, it's been a lot of fun. It'll be useful when I get around to writing myself one of these days. It's a lot of hullabaloo over one phrase appearing in two sentences, but the implications for narration are much broader. Thanks!<br /><br />-RichardRichard Finnhttp://www.random-seed.com/noreply@blogger.com